Design Principles Pod
Architecture. A hot topic, a buzz word, a realm for the rich and famous, or the thing that your step uncle does? We will be unpacking the good, the bad and the downright reality of the architectural and construction industry. With insights from industry professionals and personal anecdotes from our three hosts Ben, Gerard and Sam, you will be given a look behind the closed pages of those fancy looking moleskins. Tune in and redline out.
Design Principles Pod
Dare to Declare: What Happened to Manifestos?
What happened to the architectural manifesto? This fascinating question from a listener propels us into an exploration of how architects have historically proclaimed their design philosophies—and why such bold declarations seem increasingly rare in contemporary practice.
The architectural landscape was once dramatically shaped by manifestos: Le Corbusier's "Towards New Architecture," Adolf Loos's "Ornament and Crime," and the revolutionary Bauhaus movement all articulated clear visions that transformed how we think about building. But today, as we scroll through endless Instagram feeds of similar-looking projects, has something fundamental been lost? Have we surrendered the courage to stake out distinctive architectural territory?
We examine whether BIG's "Yes Is More" represents perhaps the last true modern architectural manifesto, and whether practice websites and mission statements have become watered-down replacements for the revolutionary spirit that once drove architectural movements. The conversation takes surprising turns toward craft, material engagement, and how the "tall poppy syndrome" might be preventing architects from boldly declaring their principles.
Most importantly, we consider whether writing your own manifesto—even if just for personal clarification—could help combat the global homogenisation of architectural styles. By articulating what you believe about design, perhaps you can recentre your practice and contribute something meaningful to architectural discourse. As we navigate a world increasingly dominated by AI-generated forms and committee-driven decisions, maybe the time is right for a return to architectural conviction.
Key Sources:
- https://www.archdaily.com/921760/how-to-write-an-architectural-manifesto
- https://designformindfulness.blog/significant-manifesto-examples/
- https://www.architectural-review.com/awards/world-architecture-festival/a-manifesto-for-the-next-10-years
- https://www.thoughtco.com/architecture-timeline-historic-periods-styles-175996
- https://archeyes.com/architecture-chronology-timeline-important-architecture-projects/
Chapters:
0:29 - Episode Introduction
2:03 - Defining Architectural Manifestos
6:44 - Famous Historical Manifestos
13:19 - Modern Manifestos - Do They Exist?
17:56 - Global Homogenisation of Architecture
27:43 - Manifesto vs Craftsmanship
36:56 - The Future of Architecture
47:14 - Love It or Hate It Wrap-up
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Speaker 1:Welcome back to the Design Principles Podcast. This week we have the first of our listener recommendation episodes. So over the last couple of years we've been asking listeners to message in on Instagram and email with their thoughts on what we should discuss, and we've plucked this one out of thin air and decided to give it a crack. So this week we will be discussing architectural manifestos. Time to dive in. This week we thought we'd come to you guys with a listener recommendation. So we've had a few listeners email in with suggestions for episodes, and one of the ones that we kind of found the most interesting was somebody asking about architectural manifestos and movements, um, and just wanting us to discuss those. So I thought we'd, we thought we'd bring that to you, um, and probably take it. Take a look at it from a more modern, modern day approach so modern.
Speaker 2:I thought for a minute you were saying we had a couple of listeners.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh damn yeah, we we've had like thanks to a couple of listeners probably like a dozen suggestions, some pretty good ones what are we?
Speaker 3:what are we working with? Have we got any haters yet? Because that's when you know you're really successful.
Speaker 1:Yeah no, I haven't haven't identified the haters yet so, sammy, have you um written your manifesto yet?
Speaker 3:have I written my manifesto? Going to write a manifesto? Is that something that you see yourself doing in the future, or what even is a manifesto?
Speaker 1:well, yeah, if we look, if we look back on it, so that's that's a good place to start, like what is an architectural manifesto? And essentially I'll try my best to define it without using like chat, gpt or something. It's purely from kind of memory, but ultimately it was historically an individual, but then it kind of shifted into groups, take on a direction for design, art, literature, architecture, etc. So you've got things like the distill movement and like there are creative demands. You've got things like the Distil movement and their creative demands. You've got Frank Lloyd Wright and the nature of materials, for example Le Corbusier's ineffable space. Those are kind of like classic examples. There's a couple of ones that are considered the greatest or the most influential and those are sort of like Le Corbusier's towards new architecture and adolph loose's ornament and crime and they were sort of like these are these books a manifesto?
Speaker 2:I guess a book's probably a good way to you know, really really hone in your manifesto yeah, like to be perfectly honest.
Speaker 1:I don't't know how many of them were actual books more, but rather like a series of lectures and theses and key ideas and deliverables and statements. Really, you know, like you have those key classic, less is more type mentalities that were essentially like those architects' direction. It was their manifesto, it was what they were wanting to embody and deliver, didn't Lee Corb?
Speaker 2:have his five points towards new architecture Like really hone in specific, I guess deliverables.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Kind of what manifestos were like 10 points to our type of architecture, or blah blah yeah.
Speaker 1:So corb's five points of architecture were pelotes, free facade, free plan, ribbon, windows and a roof garden.
Speaker 1:So he was basically saying that, like all architecture should have had those five points as a minimum your architecture sucks, unless it looks like mine yeah, whereas then you kind of get, but then you kind of get, but then you kind of get like other people coming in there with like different different views and different different approaches and you've got like the futurism movement and where everything has to have like a moving function and you can kind of see in a way like that sort of steampunky type nature is influenced architects like kundig and things like that.
Speaker 1:But I'd be hard pressed to for anybody to kind of come up with, or I'd be really interested to know whether anybody's kind of got like a modern take on a manifesto, because a lot of these things we're talking about they're sort of like in the early days of architecture. I mean, you could even go back all the way to like vitruvius if you want to go like full classical. But has anybody really come up with a new approach, a new direction, a new vision and really stood on principle for architecture like in the 21st century?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if they were Wellington-based, but the architectural group, remember those guys did like Courtyard House up in Karori. I think they've got one Society, the Individual, techniques, beauty, politics, economics, philosophy, the Magazine. I think those are like their chapters of their one, and I think our good friend Guy Marrage made one, didn't he?
Speaker 1:Did he make a manifesto or was Guy part of that movement?
Speaker 2:Oh, was that the Ark? What was that?
Speaker 1:organisation the Ark.
Speaker 2:House, the Ark House. Was it the Ark House that had a manifesto? But again.
Speaker 1:That was like pre-21st century, that was sort of like turn of the 20th century, you know where. I think, like that student movement was far more prevalent and I think a lot of this like these, these directions and manifestos and movements and things came from like probably more of a focus on the academic realm, whereas now I think now we're so much more focused on delivering a real thing rather than just pure concept.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. I would hypothesize that the manifesto has just moved to the About page on your website. I'm going to Google some About pages and we're going to find out.
Speaker 1:But that's a pretty wet manifesto. I don't think anybody's sitting there really like standing on principle or looking to like really instill architectural change in their about page on their website.
Speaker 3:But you're not wrong though it could be like, it's probably more in the form of like a blog or something. Essentially, it's just like a writing about principles that you believe in, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that might exist. But almost again to Lisa's point from last week's episode, is that permeating the architectural fraternity? When was the last time you guys picked up a piece of like a bulletin or a piece of architectural literature or went to a film or something and you looked at what they were presenting and went, holy shit, that's changed my whole approach to design or that's changed my life, kind of thing, like that's what I feel like manifestos are designed to do and like who's doing that these days?
Speaker 2:I've just jumped on the Hertzlog website. Their ones, I think, are very manifesto. They've got four strong titles with a paragraph underneath Obligations beyond the brief Public and political. So they're talking about their role and what they have to do within these realms. Open dialogue Individuals grow. So they're talking about like their role and what they have to do within these realms. Open dialogue individuals grow. So we are committed to providing professional development on all levels apprenticeships, internships, lifelong learning opportunities, so like. I think those are like kind of your quintessential manifestos and statements we will do this, we must do this, we must do this.
Speaker 3:We aim to do this. Yeah, it's pretty funny though, because the stigma around manifestos is that you have to kind of be accomplished in some sort of realm and you're more likely to kind of write a manifesto towards the end of your career once you've had, like you know, a whole lifetime of experience in that realm and perfecting that craft. Isn't it a little bit like on the nose to come out and write a manifesto straight off the bat, like five years out of uni?
Speaker 1:god guys, I've got some to inspire and communicate and I've got a vision, you know, like is that a thing? Well, no, but like you say that, but that's exactly what these people were doing. You know, like I feel like there was so much more I don't know like gumption for whatever better word like back in the day, like people were like coming straight out of university and being like I'm going to change the world in architecture they genuinely tried to do that and like I cannot really think of anybody that's kind of come in with a hiss and a roar at a young age.
Speaker 3:you know, like you said, being not in the twilight of their career, really looking to like shake up the architectural norm other than maybe Biaga, yeah well, there could be a whole bunch out there but you've never heard of them because they don't have that reputation to fall back on or any kind of established reputation, but like their work is just kind of unknown that would be.
Speaker 2:That would be a good cross-reference. Like when did um these people like legal write his manifesto versus like in what stage of his career was he? Was he, yeah, 10 projects in 20, zero, like Herzog's got you know their website. I've found the highest number 658. I really like on that website how they list um what number each project is, which is outrageous 658 projects.
Speaker 3:So apparently Corb was 34 when he wrote Towards New Architecture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just about to say that.
Speaker 3:Your age.
Speaker 1:How old are you, Gerard? Yeah, that's my age. You know, like there we go, Case in point, Like I'd say that Biago was probably.
Speaker 3:What have you been doing your whole?
Speaker 1:life. Exactly. I feel like Biago was probably not a dissimilar age when he wrote what I see as being the last true modern manifesto, which is yes Is More, which I don't know if anybody's read.
Speaker 3:Did he write?
Speaker 1:that, though, or did he get people to make that for?
Speaker 3:him.
Speaker 1:It's a Tasian book but it's about the firm big, but at that time it was so heavily his voice.
Speaker 1:But the whole premise of this and this is where it goes beyond kind of what you're talking to in the Herzog outline what they're sort of saying is promises to what they'll deliver to potential clients, less so than how they're looking to saying is promises like to what they'll deliver to potential clients, less so than how they're looking to like reimagine architecture, whereas, like the whole outline of yes is more is essentially there's two, two polar opposites in the architectural profession.
Speaker 1:There's the total avant-garde kind of papered, full, imaginative, hard to realize stuff and then there's the very nuts and boltsy, square, box, tick, boxy type results. Okay, I think that's a little bit black and white, but essentially what, like the whole concept and the whole development of big is predicated around the merging of those two and how you can have imaginative responses but that are still incredibly programmatic and that's like the whole. That's basically the whole shtick, right, it's outlined in such a clear and concise way that it really makes you consider the way that you approach architecture. And I'd say that's the last like formative piece for me anyway that actually has influenced the way that I approach design so do you seek out manifestos to read, to improve your own skills?
Speaker 1:No, because there isn't any. I mean, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:This is the last one, the first and the last.
Speaker 1:Good point. Why aren't they still applicable? I think you know they probably are. They probably are to a degree Like, if we're looking at the distill manifesto, like advocation, pure abstraction, primary colors and geriatric forms, why can't you lean into that? And I'd say there's a lot of people that still very much do you know. But then I don't know, I feel like they're less. They're less influential these days because people are kind of just out there to do the thing. Or am I being a bit cruel to us?
Speaker 3:I think I actually own own that Le Corbusier towards New Architecture and tried to read it at university and just didn't really understand a lot of what he was talking about. I should probably go back and try and reread it now that I've had a few years practising.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean like a decade. In practice, certainly you're becoming a lot more informed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd like a decade in practice certainly you're becoming a lot more informed. Yeah, you'd hope so anyway. Maybe not. I just find sometimes things like that are approached better when you're actually interested in it.
Speaker 3:Also, I've got to say this all sounds great, but if, like, who has anything to write about, you kind of have to have a thought process that is, I guess, has somewhat some level of depth to it, and you know what I mean. Like everyone's kind of, Are we saying we're all too shit-like?
Speaker 3:I don't know. I guess like no, we're just like we do small architecture. These guys are like doing like massive stuff. They've got like a lot. I don't know, I don't know, maybe it's just me. I'd feel like too, like insignificant. You know, I don't know if I'd know what to it is.
Speaker 1:But I think, gerard, you're right, that's probably why there's no manifestos, because we all kind of….
Speaker 2:We're all too scared of the importance that it seems to embody.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Such and such wrote a manifesto, so I certainly couldn't, but why not?
Speaker 3:It's more like I probably wouldn't have anything to write about.
Speaker 1:But then again, when you actually kind of like think about it you probably do and I think what you're more concerned about being and this is probably why people aren't like writing manifestos or looking to really hammer home new or alternative architectural movements is they're like oh, my realm or my circle of influence is too small. But even if you've got like a very small circle of influence, I don't know say, gerard, you write a manifesto and it's picked up by like 10 people in wellington or something and that's it, but it actually has a profound impact on them. I'd say that's still successful. You know that's still successful.
Speaker 1:So we need to be writing like practice, writing like a bunch of mini manifestos well, I just don just don't maybe not necessarily manifestos, but I think maybe people need to. From an architectural point of view, maybe like kind of look at themselves and understand the architecture of their design style or what they're looking to achieve, or maybe outline what they're hoping to and actually like put it to paper Because and even if it's for yourself, but it's like public access or something people may take something from that.
Speaker 2:I'm getting a slight sense of deja vu. Did we talk about? This is kind of like goals for your practice.
Speaker 1:Different. I don't think this is necessarily practice-based, although it could be.
Speaker 2:These are architecture goals. So if you're a somewhat design-focused architecture office, these are going to be like your top three points of your to-do list. I want to create architecture that X, Y, Z.
Speaker 1:I think maybe a little bit different.
Speaker 2:I think that's more referencing, kind of like that Herzog example, that you yeah, but those look more on, I guess, being on your about page, but ones that you write for yourself, goals that you don't really particularly show anybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think it's obviously for you personally, but I think it's also a call to the profession to take that direction as well. You know, like you look at the Bauhaus Manifesto, like Gropius called for the unity of art, craft and technology, you know, and so it's that call to arms from your profession to kind of approach something in a different way and maybe, like there's a slight blurring of the lines between manifestos and new architectural movements, I think they could probably be spoken about in the same light. But you know, like when has there been a conscious shift recently? You know what I mean. You think about the conscious shift from modernism to postmodernism is very clear-cut. Has there been something like that recently? Am I just kind of naive to it? What are your guys' thoughts?
Speaker 2:What are you guys' thoughts? Art Deco is one of the most visually potent styles of architecture, isn't it? I don't know. I feel like we're in a weird globalized architecture sort of season where everyone's looking at everyone's Instagram so everything's kind of slowly blending into each other. The same thing which I think is terrible and bad the more you could not look at Instagram, I think, reference things around you versus somebody's beautiful looking house on Instagram.
Speaker 1:It's an interesting point, gerard. Yeah, manifesto, yeah, there's you.
Speaker 1:There's your manifesto, yeah, Don't stop looking at Instagram, but it's actually, but I mean that could be it. You know, that could be the extent of it and you're right, gerard, that global kind of global washing of architectural styles, so true, and you know, that was really evident and you can kind of you see it obviously like scrolling through Instagram looking at like precedents and all those things. But it was super evident when I was at, you know, the Design Awards, because everything's presented in one room at one time, right, and any single one of those projects you've got to plucked out independently and like cut and paste it and put it in New Zealand and it wouldn't have been out of place. You know what I mean. Yeah, and I think that's the case for a lot of architecture these days. So maybe that is the manifesto is stop looking at your neighbour and start looking, maybe more inward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, creating more of a New Zealand architecture. Just everything has to be corrugated iron.
Speaker 1:We do have a very distinct, particularly residential, distinct, style, I'd say, less so commercial, I'd say, although our commercial architecture is by and large quite plain, I don't know.
Speaker 2:What do you think about our residential architecture is distinctly new zealand.
Speaker 1:I think, like the strong, like emphasis on certain forms, the monopitch and the gable, and use of materiality, a strong lean into natural materiality, I'd say, is probably some of the key things. That's distinctly.
Speaker 3:Kiwi, you still just described every building everywhere, though right.
Speaker 1:I guess it's like what's the difference between that and Scandinavia? Good point. What's the difference between?
Speaker 2:that and Well the difference is Australia.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, fair enough.
Speaker 3:Sitting here looking out my window in Copenhagen, I can tell you the difference is density, right, new Zealand's just still so new. I was wondering yesterday. I was like how long is it going to be? For how long do you think it'll take for New Zealand to have like the level of density that you see, like in these European cities? You know, is it like 100 years where the recession plans just keep going more, steeper and steeper and steeper until they're basically vertical and then everyone is just building next to each other, like over here, which, so which? So you know, essentially our cities do end up as dense as these cities, or is it just like never going to happen because our population is never going to reach that?
Speaker 3:interesting, you say that the urban sprawl.
Speaker 1:Really interesting that you say that being because I've got a little note here that I wrote down and like one of the one of the reasons why I thought that there's like fewer modern manifestos. I said it's like the decline of utopian thinking, so like it's the belief. Now, yeah, like there's, there's very little, sorry, a grand revolutionary, visionary action. Yeah, is that?
Speaker 3:is. Is that because, like everyone, feels like everything's almost already been done, not, not, you know, to an an extent, whereas years and years ago it was all kind of new and interesting scheming, or town planning, urban environment layout and some amazing stuff was a huge thing.
Speaker 1:But now it's like well. Granduos was a goal right. You know like cities wanted to be traditionally. You know like cities wanted to be the most visible in the world, and that's why you have places like you know London, and like Hong Kong or New York or whatever you know that have like reached for the sky, whereas I don't think that's a goal necessarily anymore. If anything else, we're looking at life a little bit more pragmatically, a little bit more naturally maybe, and everything's kind of slowed. That fast rush to grandioseness is slowed.
Speaker 3:So does that mean that the successful or the traditionally the successful manifestos are of the city scale, or are they? You know what I mean? Are they more grand? Are they bigger than just kind of like a house?
Speaker 1:I think they could be taken in at any scale. Really, I think they are all pretty well. The two we've read through anyway, I think are very scalable, like the Bauhaus and Le Corbusier yeah, totally Like you could take that and like the Distil Manifesto as well, like that's purely aesthetic concept. That could be something as small as a pen or something as large as a stadium.
Speaker 3:You know, I think scales maybe not so much, the issue being as more like no one's reading them yeah, well, yeah or I mean, I have us three sitting around here right now, like how many manifestos have you read?
Speaker 1:well, Well, since architecture school one.
Speaker 3:So I mean, I think we've figured out the issue here why they're not working because no one's reading them.
Speaker 2:I'd argue, zipfel's Atmospheres is a manifesto.
Speaker 3:What about that Chipperfield one? Was that a manifesto?
Speaker 1:We're just maybe realizing that architects books that they write are perhaps manifestos yeah, and I think there's a it's a, it's a um blurred line between a monograph, which is more like a profile of a practice, which is what you were kind of talking to earlier, gerard, and in a manifesto, which I think is more of like a monograph, is like we're an architecture practice, like kirsten thompson's books like this, her recent book, excellent book. If no one's read it, pick it up. But like that's like it's a practice and profile. But it kind of outlines the way that her practice has evolved and what they're looking to achieve and deliver. And that's less manifesto than something like yes is more where that's more okay, this is who we are as a practice, but this is why we're like it and everybody else should try to be like this kind of thing.
Speaker 2:I wonder if the previous train of thought was kind of leading to this kind of diminishing of vision. I guess, whether globally or just New Zealand, Sometimes Wellington feels like there's no vision and we're just like putting in, just trying to keep the place running, just trying to keep the pipes alive, you know, just trying to replace the pipes. Yeah, I think people are scared of vision and manifestos because maybe there's like this individualist aspect to it which people seem scared of at the moment.
Speaker 1:Is that that tall poppy syndrome issue that we've got, that we've already touched on?
Speaker 2:I really think it is. It's kind of ingrained into a lot of the processes behind projects as well. So all our public buildings are kind of committee projects now, whereas you're not going to get like a Sydney Opera House through a committee. So I feel like sometimes maybe there's less of a window for really beautiful individualist works of architecture where you might just spark something really special in the hopes of a committee coming to the same conclusion.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting, gerard, that you make that point, because I think that statement and actually a little bit of what we've talked about as well, you know, that tall poppy syndrome and like a little bit of that application as well, sort of like woven together the threads of our sort of last three conversations and maybe less so the Zuru one. But you know, from this season, and maybe it is the fact that what we're coming to terms with ourselves currently through the making of this podcast, is that we're maybe just kind of following the same path as so many others and that maybe it's okay and perhaps we should start to just put your hand up, put your voice out there and be a little bit more strident and strong, and whether that be design or concepts or whatever, you know yeah, better way to stand out a little bit yeah, totally, man, and I think that that's a huge, it's huge problem with us in general.
Speaker 1:It kind of goes back to what lisa said in the last episode we're really bad at putting ourselves out there. We need to be better at it. So why not do it with a manifesto? Why not do it on like a grand, you know, with a grand statement? We're in a grand scale.
Speaker 3:I'll start today, but you're in the right place taking notes well, you're in the right place for inspiration, mate.
Speaker 1:It's hard, to hard, to be inspired to write your grand manifesto and grey about to be daylight savings, wellington, when you're swanning around overseas in Copenhagen.
Speaker 3:I know, and it's nice and sunny, but hey, it is cold here. So you got that going for you over in New Zealand.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You just went and saw the big ski field yesterday I did see the ski field.
Speaker 3:it's pretty stunning that's a hell of a proof of concept yeah, just the lifestyle over here in general is like pretty epic did it embody his manifesto or his like manifesto.
Speaker 1:Statement of yes is more 100 it's massive but it, but, but it, but it does. Right like, okay, he could have just done a power plant, but he went. I'm gonna put a ski field on the outside of the thing and there's a climbing wall up the side as well.
Speaker 3:Right like just massive climbing wall like pile program thank you like.
Speaker 1:Pile program onto something, because why not? You know yeah, yeah, definitely I love and I love that that you know in the flesh it is a real proof of concept it's pretty interesting though, because we just came from hamburg in germany.
Speaker 3:There and it is as you were saying before, gerard I don't know who was, you know, originally designing these buildings but like the new part of cobenhagen and the new part of Hamburg are really actually like real similar kind of architectural styles. I guess they're not that far apart, but it's kind of interesting that it's becoming like the global.
Speaker 1:How new though, Like. Is that post-war or is that like new as in 21st?
Speaker 3:century. No like new as in in within the last 20 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, so they are kind of that globalised.
Speaker 3:It's all kind of merging that vanillaisation of architecture globally is still everywhere, probably stems from this side of the world, but it's definitely kind of making its way around and it is really good architecture, you know, but it is, as Gerard says, like everyone's kind of copying to a certain degree.
Speaker 1:Are there any less so manifestos, but maybe movements Like are there any historical movements or previous movements in architecture that you guys still draw upon regularly?
Speaker 2:finding it hard to go past sort of like just mid-century forms and furniture and stuff yeah, it was a time that was pretty well who?
Speaker 1:got the fundamentals right yeah, they kind of really nailed it. I'm the same in a way, but you know you don't see a lot of people leaning back into sort of like classical bend on your like, doric.
Speaker 3:Ionic and Corinthian column situation anymore. That part's true and we've talked about this a whole bunch before. But, man, like the decorative elements just really were like the pride of these buildings, you know, and it's just, you walk around here and every single building has that aspect to it.
Speaker 1:What about postmodern?
Speaker 3:It was hard on structure, but we talked about this before and I'd love to bring that back somehow. It's just so much harder, it seems so much more superficial with timber, you know, when you've got like amazing brick or stone elements that are just like so grand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or pretty, like epic timber churches and stuff which sort of tie in a lot of that. But I think like that perfectly segues into that Bauhaus manifesto, which is like talking about how architecture is like the height of art. Craftsmen back in the day used to get to work on buildings and you wouldn't get any of that detail that you saw in Gothic or classical architecture without these extreme craftsmen or artists, sculptors that would be working directly on a building. You don't really see that anymore.
Speaker 1:No, you don't in general, but I'd say that with a lot of civic or public buildings, particularly in New Zealand, we're starting to see that a lot more Like a CNC cast mould or something. Yeah, I guess there's not stuff not really being hand involved.
Speaker 3:Does that profession still exist, though? Gerard, definitely I follow lots of who would do that?
Speaker 2:well, it's probably more of like a thing that takes place in Europe, more because they've got so many stone buildings to maintain yeah, but even Europe has forgotten how to build a lot of these stone buildings yeah, but you've just got to go to the place where they all are so like we have lots of craftsmen.
Speaker 1:It'd be interesting to see whether, post the completion of a building like the sagrada familiar and there's really I can't really think of any other example that's spanned the course of time, you know, from a point where the level of craftsmanship that you're speaking to gerard, and having those artists on site molding everything, doing everything physically, to modern day where everything's a little bit more factory reset and that's kind of like a perfect example of the merging of those two cultures and like, and the realization of of um, of that building, post that I wonder if anything will come of it. You know, like will will the skill set that's learned through that hundred and however many years it is that that building's been under construction. Do you reckon that will permeate at all or do you think that's just a unique case?
Speaker 2:Like. Are those employees going to carry on with?
Speaker 1:ample employment opportunities. Well, and the researchers and you know the team behind that building is. It's insane, and the technology that they've developed specifically to complete it. Is that just going to be lost, or is there a mechanism for it to be employed throughout modern buildings?
Speaker 3:Yeah, they just need to start a church, a new church, just down the road. Yeah, just start down the road.
Speaker 1:Another 100-year church 200.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just start down the road, another 100-year church, 200. Yeah, I wonder what the nuts and bolts of what they've learned is, because you're seeing a lot of precast elements going in. Are they all carved stone and then glued together or something?
Speaker 3:But it's precasting. Did they learn all this from a manifesto?
Speaker 1:That's what I want. Well, yeah, I mean gaudy gaudy kind of kind of had a manifesto in a way, right like it was, like you know, all of his stuff was influenced by the forces of nature, was essentially his whole bit. So I guess that's a manifesto to a degree. The force of nature on the built environment, you know. But I don't do you think, gerard, that that like real, real hands-on, very intricate detailing, let's call them almost like the jewelers of the of the building industry type approach is, that is, is that where the real skill lies? Obviously it did. It did traditionally, but in the modern day, why can't pre-casting and CNC machining and 3D printing take that place? I mean, we're just harnessing new technology to kind of deliver the same thing, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, maybe decisions like this, where you're thinking about going like a CNC route or a handcrafted route, is perhaps where you need a manifesto.
Speaker 1:Is this the DPP manifesto?
Speaker 2:To help you out in these decision-making scenarios. The Bauhaus one was very strict. It was like architects, sculptors, painters, we must all return to crafts. And then he, funnily enough, I don't know if I agree about this, but he says for art is not a profession. Yeah, there is no difference. For art is not a profession. Yeah, there is no difference between art and the craftsman.
Speaker 3:Gerard, you're still finding that out the hard way, though, eh.
Speaker 2:I hate it and love it at the same time. The artist is an exalted craftsman. In rare moments of inspiration transcending the consciousness of his will and grace, the heaven may cause his work to bloom into art. He makes the argument that artists should have, should have a knowledge of craft, which I appreciate, which I I think sometimes is lacking is that where your, where your skill set comes in?
Speaker 1:both you guys really be? You know, being with your building background and gerard with your furniture making background. Am I the one who's dragging the chain here? I don't have my crafty, I don't have my get crafted, make it hands-on, but I like model making. Does that count? Finish making background. Am I the one who's dragging the chain here? I don't have my crafty, I don't have my hands on background. I like model making. Does that count? Get to craft and earn. I'm playing with Lego. My daughter's Lego is somewhere behind me.
Speaker 2:Is that enough? I think so. Lego is the modern marble sculpting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just Lego building. I mean Biaga built an entire building based off Lego building. I mean they are going to build an entire building based off Lego. They'll find it in here somewhere.
Speaker 3:Was that the Lego building? I mean, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:The Lego building.
Speaker 3:It is just Lego building Lego, building for Lego. That's cool yeah.
Speaker 2:Is that Copenhagen, are you?
Speaker 3:going to go there? I don't know actually. Can you guys see that, ben? I don't know actually.
Speaker 1:Here you go. Can you guys see that this isn't the Lego building?
Speaker 2:but that's just Legos to do design development.
Speaker 1:It's really cool.
Speaker 2:I like that style of big MDRDB style architecture, like the blocking. It's kind of like Minecraft eating away at something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's the pragmatic followed by the form right, like it's the of, like minecraft eating away at something. Yeah, I mean, it's that, it's the pragmatic followed by the form right, like it's the form following function. You know, they're taking, they're taking it, they're taking a programmatic piece and they're kind of like allotting to it all of its maximum constraints and then they're going all right. What can we do to this to make it better? Basically, it's a very simple exercise. It it's push, pull, twist, turn, flip, cut.
Speaker 2:I think the beauty is in the distilling of the idea and then communicating it backwards in such a simple way. I'd be amazed if that was the exact design process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's probably the absolute pinnacle of the architect post-rationalisation.
Speaker 3:I think you need that. They do keep it quite simple, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think you need those diagrams sometimes to communicate something to somebody. You've got this strange object. Why are we doing that? How did you get there?
Speaker 1:And, funnily enough, often your thought process. I don't know about you guys, but when you're, when you're in concept design, you're constantly designing in the back of your head. Sometimes you'll jot it down on paper but or model, or quickly like model something or get an idea out, but, like, oftentimes it's not happening. But you're generating that stuff always in the back of your mind and so, like, post rationalization does make perfect sense because often you'll come up with a solution and then and then you'll like backtrack mentally and be like, well, how did I get here? And you know, and that's how you kind of like build that story, that narrative behind it. You're right, you're right. Very rarely do you go I do this, then I do this, then I do that then I do this and I.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's how AI will approach things in the future. Let's not get back onto that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got told that first year of uni I did something out of instinct, kind of almost apologized it to the tutor. I was like, oh, I don't know why I did this, I just did this. He's like, yeah, you do, Somewhere in your brain you've had a reason.
Speaker 1:Now you just got to go figure out why you did that. That's good from your tutor. That's better than some of the tutors that I had who were basically like, well, where's your processing, where's your thinking, where's your precedent? Like an idea doesn't come from nothing, justify yourself, basically. And like ideas do sometimes just come from nothing, you can have a design epiphany, that's fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like you, are what you eat to a degree, so your brain's its own little AI. Yeah, you're influenced, or a volatile bank of knowledge, that you're blending shit together and coming out with something.
Speaker 1:And that kind of lends itself to that vanillaization of the global built environment, right when everything kind of becomes pretty normal across the board, is because we're being fed on a regular basis through, through all these devices and social media and all this stuff, this same regurgitation of style and things, and probably why this hasn't been like such a strong like revolt to a, to a certain style, because there hasn't been like a group of people or, you know, a school of thought that's been in isolation, that hasn't been influenced by that. That's like simmering down, you know, under the surface and all of a sudden they erupt with this brand new idea. I'd love for that to happen, that'd be super interesting.
Speaker 1:But I just kind of our own architectural style yeah, should we just shut off our phones and just see where we go see?
Speaker 3:where we get to slowly trying AI architecture.
Speaker 2:See where we get to Slowly trying to develop a fat architecture. A fat architecture? Yeah, like Erwin. Like a fat building. Oh yeah, some hydroform buildings yeah, that'd be nice. Some chubby buildings, cute fat buildings. One of my favorite buildings is like biomockery. We just like a duck building.
Speaker 1:Did you say biomockery or biomimicry?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no mockery, we just like do you say biomockery or biomimicry? Yeah, no, not biomimicry, biomockery we. Your building is just like I'm gonna make a duck, a building referencing a duck, and it's just a duck building it like, looks like a duck it sounds a bit too literal for me is that like old frank gary's binocular binocular? Yeah, it's just that's good man, it's hilarious. I like it brings.
Speaker 1:Bring some of that to the build environment I feel like there's a lot of like midwest. I feel like there's a lot of midwest kind of like american buildings that kind of lean into that pretty heavily I wonder if you could.
Speaker 2:You could do a mockery of that almost.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I'm mockery, I'm gonna reference this become by doing incredibly meta here, but this is it, this is, this is, but this is. I'm going to reference a spec. I'm getting incredibly meta here, but this is it. This is the kind of thinking that you're required to have to develop a manifesto. You know, because if we just and you've got to run with it, like at any point, if you go, oh nah, people will think I'm an idiot, then your manifesto is never going to get any legs, whereas if you just kind of like lean all the way in, then maybe you'll get somewhere. Who knows, there's some there.
Speaker 2:There's some wings there, my duck building.
Speaker 1:What about, kind of? To close, have you guys got any thoughts about where architecture might go? You know we've talked a lot about manifestos, a little bit about movements, but it'd be really interesting. I mean, mean, I don't really even know what movement you'd call the current one, maybe to the global globalization movement yeah, global yeah yeah I mean, I think people sort of called it the sustainability movement, but I don't necessarily think that that holds true across the board yeah, I don't think many of them are actually sustainable.
Speaker 1:They're just using that word. Yeah, I think it's just that greenwashing concept, right? So where do you think architecture might go have? You ever thought about this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I could head down that path a lot further. This is kind of why I'm so interested in art and interesting ways of form-finding, in the hope that, as people closer and closer into what they're creating, hopefully you can keep creating interesting things I think it'll be gusset or stoke when someone steals your, when someone steals your concepts people steal my ideas all the time, but I just haven't told them about it. You know, you see something out in the wild, you're like, oh shit, that was my idea.
Speaker 1:But is that parallel thinking or is that direct?
Speaker 2:no, no parallel thinking yeah it's when you think something's your idea, but you realize you know there's lots of ideas out there. It's just like who's going to act on the idea, do you guys?
Speaker 1:find that when you come up with a concept like maybe a building concept or a detail or like a wee moment or something, and you're really proud of yourself and you develop it up, and then somebody next to you or somebody leans over your shoulder and goes I've seen that before and then shows you a precedent and you're like fuck, I thought I was being original.
Speaker 2:People actually do that to me to take the piss. I tell them I have an idea, so. So then, whenever they see something on Instagram I've done that a couple of times it sends me through something that looks exactly like a sketch of a drawer. I'm like, wow, are you serious? I thought I was original, but no.
Speaker 1:But is that a fear of the movement that we're moving into? Is that there's no more original thought?
Speaker 2:Is there a fear of the movement that we're moving into Is that there's no more original thought. Well, I've referenced this before about I don't think in this context, but when I was a child I wanted to be an inventor and I remember being real disappointed because in that particular moment I couldn't think of a new idea. I think that's kind of what my whole existence is is trying to be an inventor. So I'm out here in my workshop trying to create new things I love that.
Speaker 2:It's easy to create a new idea. You just put yourself into it. So it's more about like a design mechanism and tricking yourself into new things than it is like trying to tense your brain until you think of something, yeah, and process.
Speaker 1:So, like hydroforming, you lose control in the process intentionally, so you come up with something that's funny because I feel like your approach, gerard, and what you're looking to achieve is and to your credit, to be honest it's the complete opposite in the way that the industry is moving, because I feel like it's heading in there, like back to the zero conversation. It's heading in that zero direction. It's heading in that mass scale, mass produced ai, press play, beat book, minecraft kind of people direction, you know, rather than it being like really personal and process driven and like concept heavy and all that sort of stuff and I don't know. I feel feel like that's the movement that we might be moving into.
Speaker 2:Zero.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, just into what do we call out the end of this? You know? When there's a huge revolt in 50 years' time and suddenly we're all living in mud huts again or something. But you know, what do we look back on this time?
Speaker 3:as Do we see it as the generation movement, as in like the generation movement, as in like just mass generation um, possibility would be that, because of all this new technology, we kind of start to create and find new forms which I guess are like a lot of people are already kind of working on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true, starting to pop up around the world it's a nice way of thinking about it, as a positive way of like looking at the use of technology. Maybe my view on the technology is a bit negative, but yeah, I like that idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, use it where you can, but I think, yeah, I kind of see it all as kind of heading down the same path, but I think, trying to make an active decision to go down the Wolf and Groupius route.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice.
Speaker 2:Returning to the crafts. But yeah, we're going to see where that road goes, see if it works. We could all be wrong. I could be wrong. Maybe I'm in my mud hut for no reason.
Speaker 1:So, to finish up, guys and we didn't do it last week with Lisa but love it or hate it, architectural manifestos Do you love them and we didn't do it last week with Lisa.
Speaker 2:But love it or hate it. Architectural manifestos Do you love them or do you hate them? I think bring it back. I did used to read Zipthal's Atmospheres a bit and an architect that I've been very influenced by, and they're influenced by a lot of architects like Holtrop and his processes, so there are definitely things that I follow in other architects that they like to speak about. So I think consciously there's a little bit of manifesto action in there somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I love it. I think I don't engage with it enough because you kind of get caught up in your day-to-day a little bit, but I think the capacity should be there to interact with the concept of manifestos and to delve more into maybe there are modern manifestos we're just not out there looking for them that we should be looking at. So I love it. I'm going to try and make a change. Thanks for the suggestion. Whoever told us to talk about this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm definitely pro as well. I just have a hard time saying that because I haven't read a manifesto for a long time, so I feel it's a bit kind of fake. But yeah, maybe I do need to read some stuff.
Speaker 1:That's enough, and I think listeners can probably take this on board as well. Some stuff, but that's enough, and I think listeners can probably take this on board as well. We're probably all a bit, you know, we're all a bit guilty of just falling into the everyday, you know, rather than seeking that extra bit of knowledge. So maybe that's it. Maybe the manifesto is to, maybe the greater manifesto is to find outside influence, or to increase outside influence, or something I don't know. Speaking of, outside influence.
Speaker 3:If anyone has any good manifesto recs, definitely send them our way, especially like modern. It'd be interesting to read some modern ones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it'd be cool if listeners have got any suggestions of putting them on the show notes. We'd love to know. Send us in your own or your own yeah, yeah, I think we should get show notes? We'd love to know. Send us in your own or your own.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I think we should get into that a little bit more.
Speaker 3:Top manifesto.
Speaker 2:You don't have to publish it and put it on Instagram for the world to see, but maybe even just distilling some of your own design intentions and ideas might be a way of keeping yourself in check, keeping yourself on track.
Speaker 1:And helps you develop as a designer. That iterative process and that learn you know that succeed, fail kind of cycle succeed, fail, learn, succeed, fail, learn cycle is so important to to developing as a better designer. Nice thanks, come along, all right guys. Good chat you.
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