Stop Being Beige: Branding For Designers

Your projects might be exceptional, but if your studio looks and sounds like everyone else, the market won’t always give you the chance to prove it. We’re joined by Emily Konwiak Stevens of Emily Stevens Studio, an architecture brand designer and strategist, to talk about what branding really means for architects, interior designers, and other design-led businesses, especially in a competitive New Zealand and Australian landscape where the DIY instinct runs deep. 

We get practical about brand strategy: the workshop questions that uncover what matters, the competitor and ideal client research that sharpens positioning, and how a genuine point of difference often comes from a mix of niche, approach, access, and place rather than trendy buzzwords. Emily also unpacks why rebranding can feel scary and personal, and why the goal isn’t to invent a persona, it’s to close the communication gap so your online presence, website, visuals, and tone of voice reflect the quality you deliver. 

We also challenge a few industry habits: why PR, publications, and awards programmes are often image boosters instead of lead engines, how simple marketing consistency builds confidence over time, and what “personal brand” can look like for architects without the influencer vibe. If you’ve ever worried that promoting your practice feels smarmy, this conversation reframes branding as honesty, clarity, and craft. If it helps, subscribe, share it with a studio mate, and leave a review with the biggest branding question you’re still trying to answer.

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Transcript

Branding As Business, Not Vanity

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Architects don't always think of their practices as a brand, but in a changing economic and business landscape, how a studio presents itself is becoming increasingly important. Having recently gone through our own rebrand and strategic review at every hour, we've come to understand the value of treating an architecture practice like any other business. With a clear identity, voice, and purpose. In this episode, I sat down with Emily Stevens of Emily Stevens Studio, a highly regarded architecture brand designer and strategist, to discuss why building a strong brand matters in the design industry. Let's dive in. Brand strategy and getting your name out there and putting the best light behind yourselves to promote yourselves in what is a pretty competitive market. Emily, if you want to introduce yourself, I'm Emily.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

So I'm a brand designer, and my studio does a mixture of brand strategy work and graphic design, basically. And, you know, that equals pretty holistic brand identity, brand presence for my clients. And I work with architects, interior designers, an art gallery, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Nice. I didn't realize you did art gallery stuff as well. What art gallery things have you done?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

I'm I'm working with the Atom, which is awesome because it's such a beautiful gallery. Have to do new identities for every new round of exhibitions, which is really exciting.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Right. And does that go everywhere from like the graphic stuff, posters, promotional things to does it gallery layout design or anything like that? Or is it more to do with the curators?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

The curators who do the layout, and I just work with them to do internal signage. So making sure that all the typography and the signage is working with the placement of the art and yes to everything else you just listed. So all the promo, the posters, and that kind of thing. So yeah, that's been that's been fun.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Interesting. I didn't um already on a tangent. So why architecture in general, the design, designing for the design field? Like what drew you to that? Because it's interesting when we well you when you reached out to us, oh I'd be about 18 months ago now, maybe even longer.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, two years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

I had sort of in the back of my head thought that we might need a new visual direction, but kind of had no idea where to go with it. Um and then it was serendipitous that you kind of contacted me around that same time. We had coffee, and I didn't actually even realize that you that there were people specializing in your field, really. So it'll just be interesting to know why you decided to kind of specialize in that design, designing for the design field in a way. It seems like quite a challenge, but obviously like really fruitful as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

It happened pretty organically. That seems like a cop-out answer, but I think I just saw a need for it and I knew I was well positioned to help. I guess I felt like I had really similar experience running my own design practice. And there were a lot of things that I learned, obviously, in design school, but there were other things that I learned about branding and marketing through running my own practice. And I'm passionate about architecture and interiors. And I guess I'm a collector of ideas and all that in that space. So it felt like a pretty natural area to move into. So yeah, a mixture of both interest and really knowing that I could help.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Is it because the because to me, and maybe it's a New Zealand thing, like it's always seemed like we're designers, we feel like we can do it ourselves, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Having gone through the process with you, how wrong I was to have that mindset. But is it more of an inter is that is this kind of like more of a thing that's common overseas? Because it seemed to me that it was relatively uncommon here, maybe in particular in the architectural field to kind of have brand strategists and designers on board to help kind of grow our businesses, be they small

Why New Zealand Studios Go DIY

SPEAKER_02 4:15

or large.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Yeah, I think New Zealand is probably slightly more um, you know, leaning towards DIY than other countries, um, more so than Australia. I work with about 50% Australian clients, 50% New Zealand clients. Um, so that gives me a good, good intel into their market as well. Um, I think that there's a lot of architects who think, uh, you know, I've got imagery of the work and that should be enough, right? I should be able to connect with people based on having that visual representation of what I've done. Um, people are sort of realizing that that isn't quite enough. Um, I mean, the why is really because I see the need for it. And I think that the architecture industry is changing. You know, it used to be one built around prestige and names, like, oh, I really want to have ex-architect do my home because they have that name. And studios used to always have surname-based names as well. And we're seeing a move away from that. I think basically because it's not really enough anymore to connect on things that are a little bit deeper. And branding helps you do that. It's a bit of a bridge between you and the people you want to work with.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

From our perspective, because as a relatively small and young practice, we needed to find a way to differentiate ourselves, really. You know, or to kind of stand out amongst either very established or very well regarded or just very prominent crowd. We has for so long undersold the value of brand in doing that. And it's interesting, I think kind of architecture in general, and uh be interesting to get your take on whether this has been you the case with other clients. It's always felt a bit dirty in a way to kind of promote ourselves through a branding mechanism. But it now seems to be much more of the norm. And we've been kind of celebrated for the direction that we've taken, courtesy of yourself. And you know, and like merchandising and things like that, people are like, oh, it's a cool idea. Why didn't we think of that? And I'm like, well, it's all there, it's all out there, it's all, you know, it's we're not reinventing the wheel, but it does seem like it is reinventing the wheel a little bit for architecture. What do you think has been that change in mindset or that shift in comfort for us to take on that idea of brand being more important to the business? And is it more relevant to like the younger generation coming through, or do you see it across the board?

SPEAKER_00 6:51

I think it's definitely more relevant to the younger practices, generally speaking. But I I've had some older architect clients as well. Um, so you can't really generalize, but I do think just because of what I said before, with like older school practices still going off of name, you know, they're probably a little bit less likely to want to jump into a branding exercise, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't benefit, right? Everybody's gonna benefit from going through this because it's just bringing all the things that you're already doing that are already really good about your practice and your work to light. You know, you mentioned something about people being architects being a bit sus about it. And yeah, you definitely do get that. And it happens a lot in creative industries because we just want to do the work, right? We're just like, I'm doing a good job of the work. Why do I also have to like sell myself constantly? And you just don't want to feel smarmy, but the trick is basically being honest, right? So if you're being really authentic and how you represent yourself and it's all accurate, then there's nothing to be afraid of.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

You want to be interesting to dive into your process as well, because you kind of touched on it slightly and at the start of that answer, in the sense that all the information or all the body of work or everything, or your ethos, or your methodology, or your practice process or what have you, is all there. We're just not very good at communicating it. And I think something that we took through from the process with you, more than the final outcome, the the new look and font and imagery and all that sort of thing, what we took out of that was the process and unpacking who we were as a practice and what we wanted to portray or how we wanted to be portrayed, and having that package in the background that helped inform all your decision making, but also our voice moving forward. Do you want to kind of go through your process a little bit there?

Strategy Workshops And Competitor Research

SPEAKER_00 8:58

So it starts with strategy, and you just touched on the first part of it, really, which is making sure you understand yourself really well. And of course, me making sure I understand you really well. So, overall, the strategy phase is about pulling out what really matters to people. And, you know, what does your ideal client need to hear from you? What are you already doing in your practice that's meaningful to them? You know, and and we start thinking about how we can bring this to light and what exactly needs to be brought to light in order for your practice to feel a little bit more human and in order to connect with them. Um, so the process is basically workshop. You know, I ask a bunch of hard questions and we have a really long conversation about who you are, you know, what informs your work, your process, and what offerings you have, of course. And make sure that, you know, we really dive deep on understanding you. And then from there, it's understanding your context. So that's your competitors and also your audience. So audience is branding jargon, but when I say audience, um, it's just basically who is your brand supposed to be speaking to. Um, generally, that's gonna be your ideal client. Occasionally it can also be people who would refer you um to your ideal client. Um, you could have multiple audience groups. Um, but if you understand them really well, that means that you can speak directly to them, right? And I also mentioned competitors. That's it's really just you know important to look at what are other people doing because that's part of shaping a point of difference. You can't force it, it has to be genuine, but you also can't claim X thing is our point of difference if like five other practices also do that. And which can be challenging. And yeah, you also want to make sure you don't look like everybody else. Um, because that's quite confusing for clients if they're out looking and everybody looks the same and talks the same.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Quickly on that point, it was one of the talking points that I had. Oh, then you continue, but that must be probably one of your biggest challenges and the challenge in architecture in general, because I feel like we are all very much to a degree cut from the same cloth. And we had the same discussion when working through our rest strategy was that you're kind of taking your influence from your previous practice or where you've worked before, and you've brought that forward because that's kind of all you know, and you kind of get a lot of these copycat firms, and architecture seems like through a lineage, and you're gonna see that in the, you know, beige advertising or branding or even naming of businesses kind of across the board. Is that like differentiation or new direction like one of the hardest things to tease out?

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Probably not, honestly. I mean, when there are a bunch of businesses with similar offerings, there's always going to be cliches. Um, architecture, it's like everybody saying that they're award-winning, innovative, et cetera, whatever buzzword there is at the time, or in there's different buzzwords for like different uh sub-niches in architecture, I've noticed. And a lot of the time those cliches are not great, but occasionally the cliches are there because they're true and they make sense. And I think it's okay to occasionally say X thing is a benefit of working with our practice, even if other practices say it too. That's like bound to happen. But, you know, something about you should be unique. Not everything about you can or should be unique, but something should be. And what I find is that there's always something. There's a reason why an architect is gonna go off and work for themselves and have their own practice. And it's usually gonna be more than just, I want to make more money, you know, because there are easier ways. There are way easier ways to make more money. Yeah. But it's like it's like you're running, you're starting your own practice because you have something that you want to do that you haven't been able to do at previous practices. Sure. Yeah. Right. A lot of the time. So, you know, your point of difference might not be what you thought it might have been. I can't remember what you said yours might have been in our conversation, but I always drill that out some way. I always ask. I always ask. But, you know, it's really figuring out your point of difference is comes from that Venn diagram that I taught a second ago of like making sure I understand you really well from lots of different angles, and then also understanding your context really well. Oftentimes your point of difference is going to be kind of a mixture of things. It'll be a combination of your niche, um, your approach, you know, the access people have to you, your size, and where exactly you are in the world. Um, there is, of course, the possibility of having like that magic point of difference where it's like, yeah, nobody else is really doing this. We actually have a really unique offering. And it doesn't have to be that perfect thing either. You just need to have a clear perspective, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Yeah. So back to the process. So we kind of talked about finding your selves in a way through your sort of like interview process process and the way that you kind of unpack what the practice does and what it's up to, um, and what you're wanting to do and what you're wanting to achieve. At what point do you take all that information and go, all right, I'm gonna now try and to turn this into a design outcome. That's gonna be like logo, color, merchandising, website, tone of voice, all that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

I find that working with architects, they are the least surprised at by my process compared to working with some other groups. I think you guys have a real appreciation for the research side of things and the strategy side of things. But to answer your question, you know, at what point do I feel comfortable actually like getting on the tools and making things? It will be after workshop, one or two workshops with the client, depending on the size of the business. And, you know, feeling really comfortable that I understand you really, really well. And then after I've gone and done research on competitors, um, part of the workshop is also talking to you about your audience. So your ideal clients usually, different groups. Um, you know, I tend to work with practices who have experience. Like they they're not really like brand new. They might be newer, but they're gonna have some lived experience working with their ideal people. So, you know, it's making sure we flesh that out together. It's not really like a hypothetical ideal client because you've actually been working with them, which is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

So repeat these people again and again and again and again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah. And yeah, as much as possible, right? And it's it's not like, you know, you just have to find the common thread between your ideal clients. It's not like they're all going to be exactly the same type of person. So once I understand those things, that's when I feel comfortable actually ideating visually. And, you know, my first step there is kind of going wide. So thinking, okay, maybe this could work, maybe that could work, just sort of testing things. And then you land on something that ends up fitting all the criteria that you've already set out. And something that will be, yeah, like an accurate expression of everything we've just, you know, unveiled.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

It's funny hearing you talk about it now. Having gone through the process with you, it didn't feel like this, but hearing you talk about it now feels like exactly how we approach a design process. Like we get a brief, we get all the information, all the parameters, and then we create something for the client that they may have never thought of before. But it's answering all our questions, and you know when you're right when it ticks all the boxes, basically. Is it actually super adjacent, which is funny because I didn't feel like it was like that when we were going through the process. I go, maybe because I was KG.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

You weren't. You were very open. But I think it's I think that it's probably just you don't have the clarity of like what's happening when you're going through the process because I'm asking you a lot of intense questions.

Rebranding Fear And The Leap

SPEAKER_00 17:35

You have to be a little bit vulnerable through the process. And it's a little bit scary. It's a it's a bit of a leap rebranding your business and putting a new new version of yourself out there.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Do you find that going through that scary, that rebrand the emotions of its side of things? Obviously, like I had a strong attachment to our previous, you know, the previous branding we're at, I'd create it from scratch, you know, started my own thing, and you sort of have this level of connection to it. Other clients that you've worked with, have they been similar? And you know, I guess it kind of varies depending on their time in practice and how long they've been working or how long, how established their business is. But do you find that's the hardest thing is to kind of separate from what was there before?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

It's always, it's often a conversation, you know, like how, you know, when we started working together, there was that question of how much of it is gonna change. Are we gonna go through the strategy process and realize that some parts of it are gonna are appropriate, right? We went through the strategy process and my advice was that none of it was really appropriate. You know, like we needed to just redo it. Yeah. Yeah. Go through go go big or go home, you know?

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

And but I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Which was hard, which was a hard pill to swallow at the time.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yeah, but you but you also swallowed it with grace. It was not you, you weren't gonna not listen to basically all of the research and evidence.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Well, I think that's where the confidence comes into it because you're so thorough in the process that and it's the same with design, right? It's similar to us when we're designing a house. We don't just go, oh, thanks for your brief, here's a plan. Like, you know, with no back thought or or evidence as to where and why and how and what. And you're the same thing, right? Like it was challenging for sure, but the overwhelming weight of research and evidence and everything kind of convinces you that it's that it's legit and it's okay. It's the right direction to take.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

And I guess this is where this just a little side note question. But do you ever have somebody come in and and immediately you're like, that's the brand that I need to give them? Or does it always unveil through a rigorous design process?

SPEAKER_00 19:59

I don't think I've ever really different designers might tell you different things, but I'm very, very strategy oriented. So I don't really tend to think about the possibilities until I understand everything. Because from my how I've worked as a designer is I don't have ideas until I have the meat behind the ideas. So, you know, like with experience, of course, you can maybe make some assumptions, but I try not to because um clients can really surprise you. And I think before you go into a strategy session and you have those really, really in-depth conversations, you might be influenced by their current identity. And that's not really the point because if they're working with me, something about the current identity isn't working. So I don't want to have that influence me. So yeah, it really comes out of the conversation. And then once I once I have all the information, then I feel like I'll actually start getting some organic ideas. Yeah. Yeah.

When A Brand Stops Winning Work

SPEAKER_02 20:58

What's generally the catalyst for, like you just said, something with the current identities not working or it's not clicking or struggling with it? What's usually the catalyst for somebody approaching you? Is it change in ownership, new businesses, business new business uh growth, clientele dropping off, new um what's the word I'm looking for? Area kind of of work, you know, like myself just moving down to Dunedin. Are those the sort of catalysts or is it more just people are feeling like they need a refresh, they need a they need an uplift? You kind of see brands do it all the time. Spotify just changed its logo and everyone went up and did they? Yeah, they changed it to like a a mirror ball, I think, and then everybody Oh yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

The disco ball.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

So I feel like big brands like that kind of go through a rebrand every five years or something just to try and stay fresh and relevant. Doesn't feel like this is in the same Ballpark, this is more like there's always been a driving factor behind approaching you to work.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Yeah, I mean, the reality is we're doing what we're doing for money.

unknown 22:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

We're running businesses. So there's a commercial driver of some kind. And yeah, I definitely wouldn't recommend rebranding every five years. Yeah, it would be a nightmare. That would be a nightmare. And a brand, in order to be strong, is actually going to have longevity. Like, think about the power of a brand if it exists. And it's similar across 15, 20, 30 years, you know what I mean? But uh the catalyst is usually a practice isn't winning the type of work they want to be winning, or they're not winning it as easily as they should be winning it. So, I mean, that was that was something I think we spoke about, you know. It was there's a very, very common conversation that I have with my clients before we've actually worked together is if everyone could just meet us, then they would know that we're the right choice. Like as soon as we actually sit, meet a client in real life, then they know that we're right. And so it's a lot on your shoulders personally as an individual. Your brand should be doing that work for you. You know, your brand should be an extension of yourselves and of your work. Uh, so that when people look at you online, uh, when they look at your signage, they start to get a little bit of confidence in you. Um, if they're the right person, it should resonate with them. And yeah, they should start to feel like, okay, yeah, I can, I think these people could be the right ones for us. So yeah, a lot of that is that's that's probably the main catalyst, is just feeling like there's that disconnect where the image doesn't match up with the quality of what you're actually giving.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Or that the communic there's a little bit of a communication breakdown at some point because there's so many ways that you communicate with a potential client before they actually meet you.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

You know? Yeah, it's a long courting process. Often often, which leads in being dumped.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Yeah. Well, there's huge, there's huge, it's huge, huge, huge investment for people. And they're gonna amanah for a while before they contact you a lot of the time, at least in probably most architectural niches. It's about having a holistic, positive identity for your practice, not just having to rely on face-to-face meetings.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Yeah. On that point, how much do you think it plays? Obviously, we talked about like the business brand, like an architectural company, but so often that is comprised of individuals, be they directors or staff or whoever. How much does their personal identity, I guess, or branding, play into your decision making in building the business's brand? And vice versa, like once that business brand is built, how much do you kind of encourage them to work on their own personal stuff? Because in inevitably they end up going hand in hand, right? We're never that separated from our architectural practice as architects, I find.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

No, no. And and you shouldn't be, right? Uh personal brand is a funny one. And I I don't like the term personal brand, but it's also because it's like people are people, not brands. And I think that's one of those terms where creatives like you and I can get the ick, be like, ugh, personal brand. No.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Which makes you think of like Instagram influences and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Absolutely. And I have some interior design clients who do a little bit of that and it's authentic to them and it's great. But for the majority of people, that's not gonna work. I haven't met an architect yet who does that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Surely there's someone out there.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Surely, yeah. But I actually haven't, I mean, there are some, there's different ways of influencing, right? And people do it to different degrees. But yeah, personal brand is important, despite my distaste for the term. And that's just because people connect with people better than anything else. Like we're pretty hardwired for that. You know, the a branding exercise for a business is trying to expand that beyond everything relying on you, like I just said. But at the same time, if you're willing to be the face of your business, that will also be an asset.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

It must be far more relevant when you've you're named, if you've got a named practice. To me, that seems like there's it's more important at that point because you have no separation between identity and and practice. Whereas if you're behind an arbitrary name like we are, a rat, it could be anybody, you know. Do you think that there's more of a focus on the personal brand to use the taboo word, when people have named practices?

SPEAKER_00 26:55

I know what you mean, definitely. I mean, I I could use myself as an example. I am going to one day name my studio something other than my own name, but it is a difficult process. I think, I think, yeah, I think potentially, um, but it's probably less relevant than you'd think. You know, there are definitely so many architecture brands, so many architects who use a surname or just their name, but also aren't the face of the business. And then you find the reverse. My general opinion, though, is if you are willing to be the face of your business, it will be positive for you. And that doesn't have to be this like huge, massive thing. It just means that if you do a speaking event or if you judge something or whatever it is, don't be afraid to kind of share where you work. Share that you're the director of ex architects or architecture. And don't be afraid to, you know, pop a photo of it on the feed. That's generally, you know, when we're talking about personal branding and architecture, that's kind of more we're looking at as opposed to like doing reels, having paid partnerships, that kind of thing, where you're getting into like the influencer space.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Yeah, I think that's also kind of ethically gray ground for richists and architects as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah. Yeah, totally. There's ways to have a personal brand where it feels organic and natural to you. If you're like a super, super shy person and you never want to show your face, like it's not the end of the world. But most people are comfortable with the little, the, the smaller recommendations that I have because it's gonna be something that's, you know, already reflecting the work they're doing. You know, it's sort of like, well, you're already doing these speaking events. You might as well not hide it.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

You might as well associate it with your practice. Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Yeah, it's nice. I mean, like the podcast is a classic example, right? It's a personal thing, but it's inevitably every adjacent, and so why not promote it on our feed? And it's been a nice way for us to kind of get exposure, I guess, nationally. Not that it was ever the intent, but it was a nice outcome.

PR, Awards, And The Consistency Trap

SPEAKER_00 29:11

I mean, that's often the thing with PR. This is kind of a subtangent, but you know, a lot of practices focus very much on PR before they've focused on brand building. And it's because they think, oh, if we get into if I get onto a podcast or if I get onto this magazine, then I'm gonna get like an influx of inquiries. But I find that PR is much better used as like a way to connect, right? More broadly with people in your industry. It's an image booster, but it's not really like a reliable source of lead.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Would you say that that's a mistake within the profession? Is it more of a focus on awards programs, publications, like you said, PR public speaking events, what have you, over actual focus on brand identity, voice, vision, those sorts of things?

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yes, I think it can be for sure. Um and not to knock PR efforts. They're really important and they play a part, but I think that there can be a little bit of a gap in knowledge where people think it's gonna equal leads, you know. But the reality is most of the time it won't. You know, you do get some people who get really fortunate with those things. I remember like Lisa Webb saying that a video, like her was it the episode that she was on, like she gets inquiries from that still all the time.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Yeah, that was messive for her.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Yeah. So there's still, there still definitely are exceptions like that, but they're exceptions. You know, the rule is that if you're a small practice, if you're starting out, you don't need breadth of exposure. You need depth, you need exposure with the right people, you need the right people to connect with you, right? And that is more effectively done through brand identity and just consistency with your marketing than trying to get published in those early stages. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Consistency with the marketing things, a good point to raise, and something I'd like to chat about a bit further. I think it's something that we have talked about. It's in our brand strategy. And it's something that we constantly review very rarely action. And I think a lot of it comes down to time, availability, all that sort of thing. How important do you think that regularity is? Because I think we had this discussion and it's it is important, but do you think it is really that much of a game changer?

SPEAKER_00 31:38

It's a classic struggle. I'm guilty as well. I'm pretty good at at posting regularly. I just set a goal, set myself the goal of one post a week. But occasionally you're just slammed. Like you have so much work on and you need to focus on serving your clients. Sometimes, you know, that shit happens when you're running a business. But I encourage my clients to strive for that consistency and strive for what is going to be regular for you. You know, I have an interior design client in Sydney who's just great at posting. He can post five times a week. And but for most people, it's gonna be once a week, once every two weeks, you know. The consistency, you I mean, you asked how important is it, right? It's pretty important. It's pretty important. If you don't have that proof that you're a functioning business and like actually doing things, then people might have the doubt that you're still, you know, available.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Yeah, are you are you operating? Basically, you know, if you can only manage to post once a month. Gonna be like the one and done, like, oh, I won this award, and now I'm finally I've made it. I never have to do marketing again.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Yeah, the awards program's a funny one, because you do, you win you win an award and you expect there to be some level of engagement from people. And my experience so far is that there is none at all. And it's kind of surprising. And I do wonder how much of that is a uh reflection of the fact that many awards programs are targeted back at the profession rather than out to the wider public. Yeah. But also I think it is, you sort of like rest on your laurels a bit, you're kind of like, yay, I've done the thing and I've been recognized for it. I don't need to try for a wee while. But and so you do, you kind of sit back and hope that that's doing the work when it's not.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yeah. I mean, and that's largely because the awards and architecture are for the industry by the industry.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Winning an award is not a bad thing. It's a great thing. Uh, that's awesome. But it's it's it's more something that's like enriching for you and your design community. I don't see it as, well, it isn't a way to get clients. You know, I haven't talked to a a single client of mine who said, yeah, we got so many clients after we won this award. It just doesn't work that way. But it's a booster, you know, pretty similar to those PR efforts. Like if you have awards under your belt, it can reassure people that you're legit and that you're worth the money. So it's still a positive thing. It's just not a source of leads. And I think that a lot of architects get those kind of image boosters and lead sources a little bit confused.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Yeah, interesting.

Tone Of Voice Without Jargon

SPEAKER_02 34:50

And in trying to target those leads, how important is it? I know one thing that we worked through with you uh through the strategy side of the rebranding was voice or tone of voice and like using this language consistently, using these, let's call them buzzwords. You know, these buzzwords in your language, they kind of outline what you do and how you develop it and how you deliver it, etc., etc. When you're looking at an architect's website or branding or something, do you notice that the successful ones distinctly lean into that tone of voice and that kind of narrative that they've built behind them? And can you adversely can you see when that's empty and hollow?

SPEAKER_00 35:34

It's difficult for me to know what's empty or hollow before getting to know a business. Same for everyone, really. But I will, I would say tone of voice is definitely relevant. You know, you need to be speaking in a way that matches who you are as a practice, needs to match the visual identity, it needs to match, you know, the mindset that you bring to the work. If there's a mismatch between tone of voice or any kind, any part of your brand identity and the way that you deliver work, that's not a positive thing, even if it looks really good. If it ends up being inaccurate, it's not good, you know, because people work with you and then they find, oh, that's actually so different from what I thought it was going to be. And then it kind of kills word of mouth, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Tone of voice is important. It's part of part of writing in a way that represents you accurately. The main thing I see is like maybe not so much a tone of voice problem, but just the use of jargon or the use of, I mean, architecture is an academic field. You guys have years of study behind you, and there's certain ways that you speak about things I can relate. There's certain ways I speak about things that does not make sense to you.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

And it's really about saying things in a way that makes sense to your ideal client. So, you know, you might say innovative, like one of those buzzwords, right? And I'm like, okay, it's not a bad thing to say that you're innovative, but what the heck does it actually mean? What about that innovation is meaningful to your ideal client? And is there something there that we can, you know, take out and put in words that's gonna make sense to them and actually connect with them? So so much of it is just about clarity, communicating things really clearly and saying what you really mean, as opposed to using language that is trained language, you know?

SPEAKER_02 37:32

How much do you think that your brand imagery, color, tone, font, do you think that they all need to marry to kind of create that holistic view or vision of what your practice is? I mean, we've you've done it so successfully with ours, I think, in delivering what we unpacked and what we wanted to create. But I look at what we had previously, which to me at the time felt fine. I now look back on it and I'm like, that like you said before, massive disconnect. Do you think that the the architecture firms and or design firms, interior designers, builders, whoever they might be, let themselves down because they've got all the work here, maybe they've got the the vision, they've got the right tone, they've got the right obviously they're doing projects and everything, but then this one little part just rops them down the peg because it's not feeding into the main body of the who they are. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Are you talking about consistency basically?

SPEAKER_02 38:38

I guess so. Imagine if you're delivering really amazing projects, you're able to convey what you do really well, good word of mouth and everything, but you've got a shit website. Or your branding or your logo or your colour palette or whatever just lets you down. Do you think that aligning those to the good stuff that you're doing has a massive uplift in your like exposure or brand identity or your success?

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Yeah, it does. It I mean, it it makes it easier for people to connect with you. So if you are doing one aspect of your branding quite well, but only one aspect, then not everybody's gonna see the good part. They're gonna see focus on the bad things too.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

And so that kind of limits your ability to connect with people. An analogy that I use is uh if you have a really good Instagram feed, for instance, and you know, you've curated that really beautiful, but then people click through to your website once they're actually doing some deeper research about working with you, and the website's not so good. You know, maybe it's like a really basic Squarespace template, doesn't really like uplift the brand in any way, doesn't really show who you are anyway. It creates this feeling of people feeling like they've seen through a facade. Yeah. So that inconsistency, you can definitely still get work. Don't get me wrong. You can still get work, but it's gonna be more challenging and it'll be harder to command premium pricing. So it's it's part of being professional, really.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Having that full alignment. I can think of practices I've worked at previously, where we were before we talked to you, and many other examples of not necessarily architects, but industry adjacent people. I know you've been working with a builder that we work with quite consistently. And we have all struggled with that. We've delivered maybe 75% of the right business direction, but it's that 25% that's not getting us over the line, I guess, on a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's assurance for people. And if you think about it as a communication gap, I think that's probably the best way to kind of conceptualize it. You know, it's not about coming up with a thing and being smarmy and like forcing yourself down people's throats. It's just about communicating well. And if you're not communicating well, there's going to be lost opportunity for sure.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Yeah. I think the smarmy aspect of it is the biggest hurdle to overcome. It's the instant kind of reluctance to, I maybe it's even in a reluctance to think of your practice as a brand, you know, and as a business rather than just this creative enterprise, which is what we are at at the end of the day. And I think that's what we as architects struggle with in general, is the fact that we are business and we are a brand, and we kind of have to promote ourselves adequately, otherwise, you know, you do yourself a disservice.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it you're a creative enterprise, you're also a business. Ultimately, it's a commercial venture. And um doesn't I mean how I would respond is like you might feel like the concept of it is going to be really uncomfortable and smarmy and disingenuous or whatever. But then when you're actually doing it, you realize it's not that. You know, if you're working with if you're working with a good brand strategist, a good brand designer, it really is about solving that communication gap. It's not about inventing anything that isn't real. And so there's nothing smarmy about that at all. It's actually really fantastic. It's a way of connecting with people. So that's how I tend to think about it. And when it comes to like the everyday marketing stuff, if you're just like a bit uncomfortable posting, my advice would be just force yourself for a little bit. Find a marketing method that feels genuine for you, something where you can actually offer people some value. You can actually start to make some connections. Choose one thing and just try it. And actually doing it is the best way to realize like, oh, cool, like I'm actually, people are commenting on this, like I'm actually having good conversations. People actually know who the hell I am now.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

That kind of thing. So it's it's one of those things, like anything that makes us uncomfortable in business, it gets better with exposure.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

That and I would also add to that, like approaching someone like yourself to do brand, if you're not that confident in posting or preparing copy or like vocalizing what you do or anything, there's specialists out there that can help with that sort of thing as well. And I think that's one skill that we definitely have as architects or as in the design community, is we we're quite good at finding the people to help us answer the problems. And I just kind of implore people to continue with that same approach with your business as well. You know, like you don't have to try and do everything, I guess, what I'm trying to say at the end of the day. Um I've found that with the voice side of things. Writing copy for yourself, commenting on projects, preparing award applications and things like that, quite difficult to comment on your own work, I find. And a couple of times I've just been like, I need somebody else to do this for me. You sit down with them and they get to be a specialist for a day, kind of give them all the parameters. And I found the outcomes to be really successful. They can capture your voice and you don't have to try and do it yourself. And it's better than getting AI to do it.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Absolutely. I mean, the AI writing is is people are so suspicious of it these days. And they should be. I'm not a fan. It's it's there's a lot of telltales, signs, you know, and it can do a lot of harm to your reputation. So I I don't really I don't recommend it. But what you said about outsourcing, very true. I mean, as business owners, we have to make these decisions. There's only so many hats that everyone can wear.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Only so many things that you can take on yourself. And branding, you know, if you know who you are as a practice, but you feel like there's a gap in people understanding it, you probably have a branding problem and you should probably get a professional to help you. You know, lots of architects are reasonably comfortable choosing a font or setting up a templated site in Squarespace, but you can only get so far. You know, it's a bit like me drawing my own dream house. Yeah. The outcome would be far, far, far better if I had an architect do it, to say the least. There's that same need for craft and expertise in graphic design and branding.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

It's the best way of putting it.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Good. I'm glad it resonates.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

I mean, like that, putting it in that simplest term, you're right. In terms of it resonating, that's the best way to do it. And we'll uh ourselves employ you to not try and draw your own dream house, to uh employ us to do it for you, because it we're the specialists, right? And so it's the exactly the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Exactly. It's like there's I just don't have the knowledge to do it. I wouldn't personally ever try. Uh, clearly, I would be a more educated architecture client because of my work, but well, you're the risky ones. But also, I don't actually know anything about building science, or you don't want to start getting on the tools unless you actually know the stuff. Right.

Three Steps To A Distinctive Offer

SPEAKER_02 46:21

To finish, what are three key things that you would recommend? The design professions, architects, builders, whoever might be listening, who considering brand and strategy and all that sort of thing, what are three things that you think are worth them either considering or employing?

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Like employing somebody else to help them with?

SPEAKER_02 46:45

More employing in their business strategy. A couple of little, a couple of tips and tricks.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

I think that, you know, if you're I think that getting help from somebody else with branding should only happen when you're in a certain stage in business. So maybe I can cover the sort of pre-branding steps. In order for a brand to be effective, it has to be authentic. I feel like I've talked about that a lot. It has to represent something real. So therefore, in order to be distinctive, you have to first build an offering that's somehow distinctive. That's step one. You know, I'm not saying you need to be this like mind-blowing disruptor of the industry, but you definitely need a clear perspective. And ideally, you'll also have a clear niche. Being clear on that is number one. You can't build a good brand without that. Um, the second thing I would say is understanding who is your ideal client. Um, like I said, if you understand them, you can speak to them. If you try to speak to everybody, you speak to no one. And you actually should be repelling some people. Um for a brand new practice who doesn't actually have any work under their belt yet, that can be a little bit more hypothetical. You're kind of taking some guesses because you haven't actually been to market yet. But if you've been in business for even a year or two, you're gonna have like real data about your ideal client, most likely. So if you get specific on that and really drill into who they are, you're gonna be better at speaking to them or speaking in a way that makes sense to them. And then the third thing would be probably to decide what message you want your practice to convey and formulate a simple plan around how you're gonna do that. You could do it through wording. So having a really clear bio is is always important. But you can also do it through visuals. And I am a believer that, you know, a picture says a thousand words or whatever the saying is. Yeah, having something that is genuinely distinctive about your practice is step one because you can't invent it later.

unknown 48:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

If you want a distinctive brand, my best advice is to actually start with the offer. Start with what you do, start with your niche. Is there a gap in the market that you can fill? And then, yeah, audience and decide what the message is gonna be. Start thinking about how you're gonna communicate that message.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Awesome. Brilliant.

unknown 49:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Thanks, Amy. Hopefully that answers your question. That was a hard one.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Sorry. I reckon we'll call it time there. And this is anything else you want to do.

Why So Many Architects Look Alike

SPEAKER_00 49:23

The only thing we didn't touch on that we that we considered was why do all architects look the same? I think that a lot of it is really just as simple as they are forming a new business and they are looking to their peers. They feel like in order for me to be a legitimate architecture practice, I need to look like another architecture practice. And you fall into a trap of looking at what other people are doing. And it's so difficult when you're doing something from scratch yourself to kind of get a read on how it feels. So you kind of just default to doing what others are doing. I think that's a really big part of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Yeah. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

Cool.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Nice. Thanks, Ven.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Thanks, Sam.